Additionally, muriatic acid works faster and is cheaper per dose. You must log in or register to reply here. The container doesnt state the concentration of sodium bisulfate versus other ingredients. It may not display this or other websites correctly. The average cost of sodium bisulfate for a 2-pound bucket is $18. The muriatic acid most commonly used in pools is 31.45% HCl, ) is perhaps the purest, safest pH reducer on the planet. When the alkalinity of the water becomes high or low, the pH will follow shortly after. All Rights Reserved. Though durable and versatile, gunite pools are highly vulnerable to sulfate damage, thus the best option is to use muriatic acid. AJH Trade Group Australia Pool Equipment | Pool Lifestyle | Pool Heating | Pool Maintenance | Pool Problems, Acid Blue Muriatic Acid Swimming Pool pH Reducer Balancer 1 Gallon, In The Swim pH Reducer 50 lb Bag Sodium Bisulfate pH Down. I assume that by corrosive you mean to skin and surrounding structures and not to the internal plumbing and mechanics of the tub, correct? Here's an excerpt from their report: In some cases, sulfates seem to aggravate the effects of chlorides. Only after the two have been well combined will the pH and alkalinity be consistent throughout the hot tub, and you need to wait until these measurements are consistent before moving on any further. Here are some of the best-reviewed products on the market right now: Muriatic acid is cheaper per dose to lower pool pH and total alkalinity. This means that every time you add sodium bisulfate to your pool water, you increase the sulfate concentration in the water. Even quite low concentrations of chlorides can cause corrosion when concentrated by occlusion in surface films." First and foremost, unlike the. Any new postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. The higher the sulfates, the faster the rate of etching. A sodium bisulfate pool system generally involves a specialized feeder to dissolve the acid in the water, then feed the acidic solution into circulation. no, do not use sulfuric or sodium bisulfate in the Orenda Startup process. So yes, for an equivalent dose, sodium bisulfate leaves behind 2.15x the sulfates than sulfuric acid does. Pouring the acid into the bucket first and adding the water can cause damage to the bucket and may result in ineffective mixing. Quote from: Gassy on January 29, 2014, 07:45:28 pm, Quote from: keat63 on January 30, 2014, 09:36:03 am. Shop Perfect Pourz at the Amazon Dining & Entertaining store. The bucket is covered with a bag so it can be closed after use. High pH and High Total Alkalinity- use Muriatic acid or not? You can usually tell when the pH and alkalinity of your hot tub are high based on the way it runs. Now I will feel better using the sodium bisulfate. Related Reading: What Is Muriatic Acid for in a Pool? 1.02 gallons of 38.5% sulfuric acid = 10.5 pounds of 93.2% sodium bisulfate, [(1.02) x 47.1 ppm] vs. [(10.5) x 9.6 ppm]. The hot tub should be set at its usual temperature and speed before you continue. Fewer hydrogen ions will cause the pH to spike. Phone: (303) 806-9400. In spa water sodium bisulfate dissociates into sodium and sulfate releasing a hydrogen ion (i.e. This site is owned and operated by AJH Trade Group. Ed and Johnny went above and beyond what was expected. Turn the hot tub on. Test the pH and alkalinity of your pool water so that you know how much you need to lower it; Follow the manufacturers directions to see how much sodium bisulfate youll need; Pour the product into the water near the return jets and deepest end of your pool, while keeping your pumping running; Let your pools filtration system circulate and dissolve the product in the water; Retest the water chemistry within 24 hours and repeat if necessary. Commercial pools have brands like, Do not add undissolved sodium bisulfate to your pool. Even if you suspect that the alkalinity of your hot tub water is high, you should confirm your suspicions by testing the water with an alkalinity testing strip or kit. Can't say enough. While Supplies Last, See Store for Details. We may earn a small commission. This means that to lower the pH any more will mean additional sodium bisulfate and therefore, more sulfates to your pool water. Muriatic acid appears most often as a liquid acid that is commercially produced and sold in 1-gallon jugs. CO. 1.02 fl.oz. I understand your caution but lets try to be sensible about chemicals. Since it is in liquid form, its easier to spill. CO, is injected using pressurized tanks and a feeder system. When the alkalinity and pH get too high, chlorine-based disinfectants are less effective. Liquid muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid diluted to 20 percent) and dry sodium bisulfate are among the most popular choices. 8:00am - 5:00pm Muriatic acid is more efficient but dangerous to handle and sodium bisulfate is safer but more expensive. Once you notice this difficulty, it is time for you to change the old water out for fresh water. The reason is that gunite is built using a rebar framework that is covered in a concrete and sand mixture. You should completely drain the water in your hot tub at least once every four to six months. Its available only in 93% concentration. To do this, well be using a standard pool size, which averages about 17,000 gallons (77,284 L). Copyright , Pure Planet Science & Technology, Inc. Sulfuric Acid, Sodium Bisulfate & CO2 | Muriatic Acid Alternatives, Muriatic acid is a diluted form of Hydrochloric Acid (HCl). Sodium bisulfate, also known as dry acid, is a safer and less corrosive alternative to muriatic acid. Muriatic acid and sodium bisulfate both have their pros and cons. If you use our referring links, it costs you nothing extra. One pound of sodium bisulfate leaves behind 9.6 ppm of sulfate in 10,000 gallons of water. Always follow the instructions on your pH/alkalinity chemical when preparing the correct amount. An ideal range for alkalinity is between 80 and 120 ppm. Perhaps youve recently tested your pool water chemistry and noticed that the pH and alkalinity are too high, so youre trying to find the best ways to lower them. Test the alkalinity first, then the pH. You must add the acid to the water. Like muriatic acid, sodium bisulfate lowers pH and alkalinity and is also used in household cleaning products and other applications. See the. You are using an out of date browser. Periodically drain the water. Doesnt come with clear instructions on how to use it. Because the sulfates from sodium bisulfate are notorious for damaging concrete surfaces once theyre above 300 ppm, its safer to use sodium bisulfate in either a fiberglass or vinyl pool. Always pre-dissolve it in a bucket of water. process calls for industry-standard muriatic acid (31.45% HCl). In this sense, pH reduction products include both muriatic acid and sodium bisulfate. Fast service, knowledgeable, reliable and affordable! In this case, say were trying to lower the pH from 7.9 to 7.5. An example is some inground pools and many above-ground pools. Make sure that the pump and filters are running. Muratic Acid is very good at lowering both PH and TA. Allow the pump to circulate the water for three to six hours after you add the decreaser. This partly explains why sodium bisulfate costs more than muriatic acid. 1 pound (16 oz.) This means the rest of the pool structure is much less likely to be damaged by the sulfates from dry acid. Both muriatic acid and sodium bisulfate are good options for lowering the pH and alkalinity in your pool, though each has its pros and cons. That would only occur in water with a pH near 2 or below since that is the pKa of sodium bisulfate. Understand the relationship between pH and total alkalinity. If either the alkalinity or pH is still high, repeat the process. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Determine your initial measurements based on total alkalinity. If levels are still high, repeat the process while adding less muriatic acid each time. Saturday: 9:00am-5:00pm The main difference is the byproduct left behind. pH Down and pH Decreaser is an umbrella term, most often used in the pool and spa industry, that includes any product that can lower the pH of pool or spa water. In this article, Ill be helping you compare and contrast the two most common chemicals used to lower pH and alkalinity, muriatic acid and sodium bisulfate, so you can decide which option is best for you. You will need to balance the pH and alkalinity of your water nearly every week if you use the hot tub regularly. The guys at Everything Hot Tubz were Fabulous! Free Shipping on eligible items. Thanks, TMan. Sodium bisulfate appears in granular form and is commercially produced and typically sold by the bucket. , sulfates compound corrosion issues when chlorides are present. AJH Trade Group is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program. Everything Hot Tubz 2022. Website Design by Sitewired Web Solutions. I have gotten full strength MA on my skin many times and I assure you Im not a zombie extra on the set of The Walking Dead. For most pools, muriatic acid is probably the better option as it doesnt add sulfates to the water. As a general rule, you will need 1.6 lbs (725.75 g) sodium bisulfate or 1.3 qt (1.23 L) muriatic acid for every 10,000 gallons (37.85 kL) of water to drop the total alkalinity by 10 ppm. When using either chemical, acid-resistant gloves, long sleeve clothing, and safety glasses should be used. Huge Discounts on Slightly Blemished and Open Box Hot Tubs and Swim Spas! The pH may not be balanced yet, however. You will get much more visibility by. Heres how to use muriatic acid to lower the pH in your pool. Though the floor typically has a base of sand or a cement-like substance, and the walls are made with galvanized steel or thermoplastic, the vinyl itself protects these materials from the water. Related Reading: Which Chlorine to Use for Vinyl Liner Pools? Both can be used to lower the pH and total alkalinity of pool water. If the water pH is higher than this ideal range, the water is too basic or alkaline. They were timely, efficient, reasonably priced, and gave that extra customer Having had 2 unbelievably bad experiences and given mis-information by the original manufacturer and terrible follow up and service from another hot Denver Hot Tubs | Everything Hot Tubz | Denver Swim Spas and Used Spas. Here, Ill be providing you with a quick guide on using sodium bisulfate to lower the pH in your pool. Your chemistry is wrong. The lower concentration will mean very little odor and a larger quantity to measure out. See footnotes. Note that if you see corrosion, etched plaster, or stained plaster, the pH and alkalinity are probably too low. We can convert in reverse to double-check our math. Hot Tubs, Swim Spas, Patio Sets, Gazebos and More, Hours: The acid combines with the water, thereby increasing the concentration of hydrogen ions and lowering the pH. Lets first take a look at what these chemicals are individually so that you can have a better sense of the comparisons Ill be discussing later on. O. Here is a case study by Que Hales of onBalance trying to remove it from a pool in Arizona: https://aquamagazine.com/service/the-mystery-of-the-pointed-crystals.html. For a general idea, here are some of the most common muriatic acid products on the market. The cost of sodium bisulfate, like that of muriatic acid, depends on the amount and concentration of the product. Concrete is vulnerable to damage spawning from high sulfate concentrated water. It is most common in commercial pools with chemical automation controllers. of 38.5% sulfuric acid, Whew. As a general rule, you add about 10 ppm worth of sulfates for every pound of sodium sulfate you use in a 10,000-gallon (45,461 L) pool. Additionally, its stronger and will cause more damage to surfaces or body parts if its spilled or splashed. At the end of the day, just know that whichever option you choose, youll be sure to have your pH back down to normal; its just a matter of time (literally). Start out slow and take your time. As long as you handle it with appropriate care, youre not in any danger. Hello , This is an inactive thread. Thats why its best to avoid sodium bisulfate and use muriatic acid instead. The reason is simple: TFPC (Trouble Free Pool Care) is a methodology, not a product that you must purchase. Once you balance the alkalinity, the pH will gradually adjust to it. It also creates toxic fumes. So, while this product is good at lowering the pH by virtue of the sulfuric acid, it either does nothing for or increases TA by virtue of the NaOH it adds to the water. Though used to quickly lower the pH and alkalinity of pool water, muriatic acid is also used as a household cleaning solution, especially when it comes to cleaning stains and grout. More precisely, pH is a measure of the concentration of hydrogen ions in the water. New to the spa world. The ideal pH range for hot tub water is between 7.4 and 7.6, but the acceptable range is between 7.2 and 7.8. acid): Chem geek- thank you for the correction and for sharing your knowledge. From this, you can see that to lower the pH of a 17,000-gallon (77,284 L) pool from 7.9 to 7.5 will require $7 if youre using muriatic acid and $9 if youre using sodium bisulfate. I don't keep and acid around outside of the acid that's in the container that the stenner pump pulls from. About 1-1/2 teaspoons buy a small volume squirt bottle (they sell then on amazon) or a dispensing container with a chamber -. Both sodium bisulfate and muriatic acid are dangerous chemicals and should be handled with care. Muriatic acid costs $7 per dose whilst sodium bisulfate costs $9 per dose. of 38.5% sulfuric acid = 1.00 fl.oz. Because its difficult to compare a liquid acid and a granular acid that comes in different concentrations, we should look at this from a cost-per-dose perspective to see how much each would cost when theyre both trying to lower the pH. From the, Sulphate attack occurs under balanced water conditions, even at concentrations below the maximum recommended concentrations. Test the water chemistry to see how much youll need to add; Based on the manufacturers instructions, calculate how much muriatic acid youll need to add to lower the pH to the normal range; Add your muriatic acid while keeping your filter running. I will use it sparingly, and thanks for the dilution tip. You could also look for a generic pH decreaser, alkalinity decreaser, or combination decreaser chemical at a pool supply store. That explains why the UK's Pool Water Treatment Advisory Group (PWTAG) advises against sodium bisulfate as a primary acid, which will segway us into our next topic. Test the alkalinity and pH again. Muriatic acid is more dangerous though. Monday to Friday: 10:00am-6:00pm As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. Monday - Saturday 9:00am - 3:00pm, Service Phone Lines: Usually, if the sulfate level in your pool water exceeds 300 ppm, the water will start to attack and corrode concrete pool surfaces, metal components (including saltwater generators), and vinyl pool liners. July 2001. It would be 10 Baume or 15%. Test the total alkalinity of the hot tub. We are a registered 501(c)3 non-profit that is funded by user donations. As the topic title states, I have a situation where my TA is very high as is my pH. Scoop water out of your hot tub into an 8 gal (30.28 L) plastic bucket until that container is three-quarters full. Everyday low prices, save up to 50%. This is based on reducing pH from 7.9 to 7.5 in a 17,000 gal (77,284 L) pool. Here is a case study by Que Hales of onBalance trying to remove it from a pool in Arizona: Total Alkalinity vs. pH and their roles in water chemistry, dissolve calcium chloride in a bucket of water, https://www.pwtag.org/sulphate-attack-february-2011/, Durability of Concrete and Cement Composites, Report on the Corrosion of Certain Alloys, https://aquamagazine.com/service/the-mystery-of-the-pointed-crystals.html, The difference between muriatic acid and sulfuric acid. It is being practiced by thousands of pool owners just like you. Since the two are so closely connected, you will often need to correct both at the same time. Give the water a chance to balance. Total alkalinity is a measure of the water's ability to buffer and resist changes to the pH. Sodium bisulfate does not create sulfuric acid and sodium hydroxide in water at typical spa pH. , and especially do not let it sit on the pool surface. We do not want to complicate the already-delicate water balance by introducing corrosive sulfates when the plaster is in its infancy. To lower both total alkalinity and pH, you will need to add an acid. With a bit of chemistry knowledge and some research, I learned that sodium bisulfite reacts with water to form sulfuric acid and sodium hydroxide, the latter of which is a weak alkali. Add the diluted chemical to the hot tub. of 31.45% HCl. Re: High pH and High Total Alkalinity- use Muriatic acid or not? However it is also very corrosive and needs to be both handled and added very carefully. in the pool industry. Total alkalinity's ability to measure the water's resistance is more accurately described as a measurement of "buffering capacity.". Total alkalinity should be tested before the pH. In my pool, I use MA and a stenner pump because I'm scared of the MA and prefer to only handle it once / year. The pH will drop faster than the alkalinity, so you need to fix the alkalinity first. Pour the acid in gradually instead of dumping it in all at once. Afterward, fill the hot tub back up, balance the pH and alkalinity as needed, and continue to monitor the conditions as usual. Use a non fuming version of MA. sulphate ions can migrate into the cement mortars, renders, screeds or concrete and begin to react. Rapid changes in he pH are often symptomatic of low alkalinity, as well. High levels of sulphate would otherwise react with and erode materials containing Portland cement, [emphasis added, and the original quote had SO, , which we will explain in a moment. To decide which to use, youll have to think about your priorities: are you more focused on getting the pH down quickly, are you on a budget, or are you more worried about your safety? 2 H2O. The cost of muriatic acid depends on the amount and concentration of the product. Dilute it with water first in a bucket then add it to your spa. Continue as needed until the water is well balanced. Walk-ins It doesnt react as concrete does. That's more than double (2.1x) the sulfates for an equivalent dose of acid! Choose the right chemical. AJH Trade Group also participate in other affiliate programs. Slowly pour the acid near your return jets to let the pump circulate it; Keep your pool filter circulating to let the chemical dissipate (normally within an hour); Retest your water chemistry after an hour or two. Pour the full amount of pH decreaser into the water in the bucket and let it dissolve. Because fiberglass is constructed using small glass threads, polyester resin, and weather-resistant gel, its much less prone to damage caused by sulfates. Similarly, even if you suspect that the pH of the water is high, you should take a precise measurement of the actual pH by testing the water with a pH testing kit or testing strips. As mentioned in our earlier example, it takes roughly a pound of sodium bisulfate to lower the pH by about 0.4. Login with username, password and session length. If you need to make further adjustments, the sulfates can easily pile up and, because theyre quite difficult to remove, youll likely see the effects of the sulfates on your pool much sooner than youd expected. Signs of high alkalinity include the formation of scales along the sides and bottom of the tub, cloudy water, skin irritation, eye irritation, and poor sanitary conditions. Most visitors online was 3404 , on Jan 24 2020, Amazon.com | Perfect Pourz 8 ounce Plastic Liquor Flask - Small Flasks with a Built-in 1/2 Ounce Shot Glass: Flasks, Filter cleaning chemicals - SDS reviews, DIY guidance, With over 300,000 members, TFP is the largest and most influential pool & spa website on the Internet. If done correctly, the alkalinity should already be balanced. for every ounce of muriatic acid, you need ~1.31 ounces of sodium bisulfate to do the same thing. Test the pH of the hot tub. On average, a gallon of muriatic acid costs roughly $20 to $25. Know the signs of high alkalinity and high pH. This requires approximately 12 ounces (354 mL) of 31% strength muriatic acid or 16 ounces of sodium bisulfate granules. It's been more than 30 years since I studied chemistry, and for me it was just a requirement for graduate education. It is crucial, however, that no one is in the hot tub while you are balancing the water. The local spa store sold me some "pH down", which is sodium bisulfite. Slowly pour the diluted decreaser into the center of the hot tub. Dilute the acid first in a bucket of water (add water first then acid) in a 10:1 (water to acid) ratio (always follow manufacturers instructions).
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