Given that you'd expect them to have MORE sizes for more overlap and better "Coverage". It's easy! I understood that the Mastercam camming angle was indeed smaller than that of the Camalots but the same as that of WC Friends and DMM Dragons. We also found that the u-stem cams are much easier to clean with a nut tool if they get wedged in there. I however avoid woven sheaths Cams in general as much as possible for others reasons From Colin Haley Colin Haley equipment for alpinism, "Avoid cams with woven-sheathed cables (Aliens) for alpine climbing, as they can freeze up and become useless, dead weight.". It all comes down to which fits more places. AAI assumes no responsibility or liability for your use of the information presented in this blog. I do not feel as secure with a C3 because they are so damn stiff and the heads are way smaller and sliperier than mastercams. If you try to shove them in without pulling the trigger, they flex and wont go in. In terms of the wire, the cord is a nylon and kevlar mix which is lighter, (theoretically) stronger and more flexible than wire. Sign up for a new account in our community. Got feedback? Rock Climbing Tuolumne | We really liked the fact that the cams are so light and compact compared to other cams that we tested. The larger ones stick and are hard to engage without bending the floppy stem. The finish and handling seem nice though, like all metolius products. Thumb loop isway too small while using gloves in the alpine making them hard to place. The single stem wire on mastercams looks like it might be more susceptible to bending, but I've also bent a bunch of my camalots where the wire meets the head, so that's also really just me being leery of a new design. I remember not long ago when it was hip to trash talk a route that was long seen as a big challenge to most. I prefer the sculpted trigger to the triggers on my Aliens. Material on GearLab is copyrighted. However, they have not used the Totem cams YET! incredible community has formed around the site - weve provided the framework but its you who make the website what it is today. Points: 50, Latest Well, as usual it's one of those innovations that may or may not catch on. The Totem Basics are a near spot on version of the CCH Alien with some tweaks and improvements that make it better overall. i should have mentioned this is just an inquiry for the orange size on down. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. There is no right or wrong here as it's just a case of personal preference. The "u" stem four cam metolius units seem very stable and able to grab uneven shaped cracks. Mastercams are less flexible than Aliens, but with a sling, who cares. The u-stems are flexible enough for horizontal placements, while also providing a high clip-in point for aid climbing and the cam head is compact enough to fit into some awkward and tight placements. If We found that the Powercams tended to walk a bit more than many other cams that we tested. cams, I think about other cam designs (Metolius Fat Cams, TCUs, & offset TCUs, Black Diamond C3's, Aliens, etc. Hopefully the Spaniards do a better job of it. Zeros are widely available and a similar price to Master Cams, the natural comparison surely? Enviromental sustainability has been one of the main driving forces behind EDELRID products for many years and the #climbGREEN range continues that trend. Got feedback? In part this is due to the rather strong springs and in part due to the camming angle. Heck yes. And ditto on the comment about waiting on the regular totem (the non-alien). "Mikey, Sol, or Blake - So since the three of you all are not on the mastercam bandwagon, can you please specificy detail why? Looks like everything here is just personal opinions. After good use in both summer and winter conditions in the Alps I've really enjoyed having these on my rack. payment or a more substantial payment paid monthly or yearly which includes full access to Rockfax Digital and discounts on In fact, they even appear to wear better because of the dual axle they seem to clean easily, so you don't have to yank them around as much to get them out or in a tight placement. I haven't taken a fall on one yet but they have performed perfectly in aiding and winter situations, with none of the ice/snow clogging up of the lobes that you get on cheaper cams which renders them totally useless in mixed situations. Please help UKClimbing continue to provide varied and free content by becoming a UKC Supporter, or UKC Supporter Plus which First, name dropping for who uses what and for what reasons isn't really a convincing argument. Math wise the Metolius master cam puts more force outward on the rock and should result in more holding power. I have several friends that climb 5.12+ trad, and they LOVE their Metolius cams for crack climbing, so I don't think there is some group concensus that 5.12 crack climbers don't like Metolius cams. Since they have fixed the fraying issue the lobe tilt is not an issue any more as well. Rock Climbing Southwest |
All trademarks property of their respective owners Way more burly and long lasting then Aliens (which I loved), but thats not saying much. The heads are narrower on the master cams in these sizes and I feel I can wiggle them into narrow seems and still see in to inspect the heads. I find them perma frozen in cracks everywhere. I am a manufacturing engineer, but my asessments are based on climbing regularly and placing gear and not dyanmic testing or working in the lab with them. Rock Climbing Zion | 2. As mentioned before, we weren't actively cognizant of using the rangefinder, but we think that it does register in our brains when placing the piece. Instead, Metolius Cams always seem to have gaps. and Is one company publishing actual range while the other is publishing usable range? October seems to be excellent for rock climbing in most places in the country. So, so far so good. As another of the UKC gear reviewers, I've had this problem as well; I'm going to be writing the DMM Dragon review, and I can compare them to the 4CUs that I've had for 4 years, and the Friends, flexi friends and quadcams I've had for 15 or more years - but I've never owned Camalots and I bet lots of people will want to know how they compare to them! When you click on links to buy products we may earn money to support. Use them side by side with the BD's and Metolius cams, thats what it takes. If that's the case, what do like more about tcus. Green-Red Alien are their sweet spot. The problems were indeed related to each other. We're proud to say that most of our products are still made by our small team in Skipton, North As climbers we strive to make UKClimbing the kind of website we would love to visit, with the most up-to-date news, diverse The cam lobes are nice and wide making them a decent option for softer rock types. There were no issues with this, so it was decided to add this to the new range of cams to make the most of the benefits. Hope you had a great 2021, and wish you the best for 2022 and beyond. Thanks again for stopping by. The reason I ask is because I always want to have full faith in my gear, and the mastercam hate kinda shocked me. :-), Oh back to the name drop thing.. I was still using both of them a couple years ago, they hadn't even broken a trigger wire. Yeah, on the #0 and #1, but I'm usually reaching for a ball nut as often as a cam for those placements. Metolius Mastercams: weak point Jon Griffith
Take a chill pill brother. 2.) Check out our Guest Map and mark your location. My partner took a 7 foot fall on it on Lazybum in the valley, held fine. In fact, due to the rather stronger springs and more aggressive camming angle they actually feel better than the C3s, as when I put a micro in place I want to make sure that it is going to walk as little as possible as there is very little margin for error on these ones. Trigger wires on Master cams get snagged in the crack at times making them hard to remove, I could care less as I'll make my second deal with it. another point? When seated correctly the lobes really held in place. Climbing, skiing and mountaineering are dangerous sports. Happy Rocktober, everyone. And bottom line, nothing beats a well set wired nut. Metolius has incorporated a cool feature into their larger camming units: the range-finder. The machining on the lobes looks down right janky compared to c4. I'm going to wait until people have been climbing on the totems for a couple of years before I spring for them. But, I don't aid climb at all, maybe that bashes them up worse. Copyright 2017 CascadeClimbers.com Quite apart from the fact that it might snap, rendering the cam totally useless, it also meant that the cord would slip around the trigger bar making placing the thing a real pain. Indeed, when I first started to build my rack, the "made in Oregon" helped me to decide. Whilst they are a very different build to the C4s and therefore a little hard to compare I am equally happy with either one on my rack. This is obviously a minor issue, but it is annoying. Building a rack of cams can be confusing and expensive A camming device is often referred to as a "camming unit" the world's most carefully tested and objective gear reviews. One of the main selling points of micro cams is how narrow the manufacturer can make the head width. The machine work looks far better than Aliens. The green alien is far far better then any other cam in that size. Weight wise the C4s are on the heavier side but this is due to their dual axle design and therefore they have a larger camming range. flaneur: As Toby has said I dont actually own either the Zero or the Alien cams. Add on top of this the range finder, which Metolius has on all its cams nowadays, and you can feel really secure with your placements. No cherry-picked units sent by manufacturers. As I look at these generations of Elias Range ExpeditionsBolivia ExpeditionsPeru ExpeditionsChina ExpeditionsBugaboo Provincial Park ExpeditionsPacific Northwest Climbing ProgramsSierra Nevada Climbing Programs. American Alpine Institute - Climbing Blog, Rock Climb Red Rocks - Las Vegas, Nevada, Climbing Events December and January 2012, Win a Free Copy of Andy Kirkpatrick's Cold Wars, National Geographic: Adventurer of the Year Award. The idea is that the wire does not kink (like metal wire) and there is no feedback between cam lobes, creating a safer unit. It's impossible to explain properly so just look at the image below. (Ed's note: Aliens are now difficult to find because the company Colorado Custom Hardware Inc. is up for sale). Ol' Blue has fit into more little tips cracks than I can remember, and held more falls than I'd like to admit. Again as Toby has said we can only compare them to what we own am afraid. After a few months use some of the cords started to fray and then very quickly the sheath would break apart revealing the inner core. But again, it's what you [can] get used to I suppose. I've been down at Indian Creek for the past few weeks climbing on all types of gear. Topos | Guidebooks | Route If it were really a problem then aid climbers would be up in arms about it on ST. But wait, this route isn't hard so never mind My rack: C3s from purple to green (for basalt and granite). Gene, I think Nate was referring to the argument stated in both threads that 5.12 and beyond climbers don't like mastercams. This past weekend, I found myself going through all my rock climbing gear to clean, sort, and decide what's still good for use. Posts in all Forums, Free We only make money if you purchase a product through our links, and we never accept free products from manufacturers. The Official Trip Report, Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 11, 2016 - 10:44am PT, Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2016 - 11:29am PT, Topic Author's Reply - Aug 12, 2016 - 11:19am PT. How can we improve GearLab? Totem posted on this at some point on ST. Basically, the Totem rating is with less cam closure vs the Fixe. 4. Red Chili have some exciting new models for 2022. includes discounted products from Rockfax. The new engineering that allows you to load a Totem cam on just one side(2 lobes) and hang off it(no guarantee it will hold a lead fall set like that but good for aid), should tell you something about their holding power in other then perfect placements and also their resistance to walking when both sides of the cam are engaged. Granted I don't lead 5.12 and I haven't broken one (which would shake my faith in them, as blowing a couple placements on a C3), but I feel like I've climbed enough, and had to make some pretty creative placements from "marginal stances". But oh wait, master cams suck and this guy was a total moron because nobody that climbs hard trad uses master cams. For a small finger sized cam, I love the "u" shaped 4 cam metolius units. I wasn't impressed when I first saw them, but in placement after placement on a big aid climb they worked where anything else was questionable, and thats what convinced me. Yeah, they were unreliable with issues with cams dated before and after the recall. I see people place wiggly cams in a perfect v shaped slot where a wired nut would hold a truck i am psyched for some new aliens. Yellow and up it is close to being a wash with a slight edge to aliens. Just about any name brand cam on the market is going to safely hold a fall when properly placed, even on 5.hard terrain. Basically rendered it useless in 2 climbs. My only issue with them is that the lack of range. Below a Green Alien the Master Cams and other designs are better. I'm glad I waited on the link cam and the supercam. The CCH/Fixe rating being higher is due to a different testing regime. Mastercams in my opinion are unwieldy and hard to place in a panic. American Alpine Institutewww.alpineinstitute.com800-424-2249360-671-15051515 12th StBellingham, WA 98225, The Equipment Shopat theAmerican Alpine Institute360-671-1570, Winter Courses and ExpeditionsNow Taking Reservations, Rock Climb Red Rocks - Las Vegas, NevadaRock Climb Joshua Tree - CaliforniaEcuador Volcanoes Skills ExpeditionClimb AconcaguaBackcountry Skiing - WashingtonBackcountry Skiing - ColoradoBackcountry Skiing - SierraWinter Mountaineering - SierraIce Climb Ouray - ColoradoIce Climb Lee Vining - SierraAvalanche Education - Washington, Summer Courses ExpeditionsNow Taking Reservations, Denali / Mt. Climbing Alaska. Coel Hellier: I have email Metolius for clarification. It's a bit too much. Jon Griffith's first climbing days were in the Avon Gorge at Bristol. I am still getting used to the whole Chamonix 'get back in time for the last lift' style - I still include bivying as a part of any decent mountaineering experience. Rock Climbing Sierra I've never had one snap or heard of it being any widespread problem since they fixed the degreasing issue of the first few runs. I basically never touched my Power Cams, TCUs, or two sets of Alien Hybrids again after Master Cams came out. I've actually emailed the guys in Bend about making half sizes. When I contacted Metolius I was told that it was not an issue that they had seen before - it often happens that when you review gear you get prototype kit meaning that there are often modifications before it is released on the market. When you undertake an outdoor, backcountry, or an alpine adventure without a guide, you assume total responsibility for your decisions and wellbeing. single annual Though this site features descriptions of roads, trails, climbing routes, and other natural features, you cannot assume that because something is described here that it has not changed since last observed or that it will be safe for you or your party. ), and the *newest* cam to come out (Spring 2013) - the. You help support OutdoorGearLab's product testing and reviews by purchasing from our retail partners. I did an initial review here - read down a few posts, I saw I posted on the Strength ratings as well. Rock Climbing Red Rocks | Metolius has created a very lightweight camming unit that will serve you well on lightweight backcountry adventures and big walls alike. Still the same old community of climbers, skiers, and people who love to get outdoors. The downside versus the old metolius tcus is that the quad cams will not pivot in an upward pull. If you appreciate UKClimbing then please help us by becoming a UKC Supporter. Having scoured the internet for similar horror stories it seems that I got a bad batch and that the versions released on the market live up to the high standard of manufacturing that Metolius are known for. Conditions in the mountains are constantly changing, and no guidebook or computer web blog can take the place of solid training and experience. It's the size you WANT between Blue and Yellow. -disingenuous marketing about "holding power", - spring tension that relies on the cam stops, (this is in comparison to correctly-assembled aliens, not the ticking timebomb models that failed under bodyweight). It's hard to put it into words, but quite simply Metolius cams just feel bomber when they go in, which is a good thing. if a sketchy run-out 5.6 with funky thin pro is wicked hard for someone, wouldn't it be the same situation? Three cams fell foul to this and it's a shame as I really liked them. These are the closest competitors in design (small 4 cam devices). 3.) layton, November 16, 2011 in The Gear Critic. Master cams aren't perfect but in my mind they are a solid small cam. Weekend Warrior - Videos to get you STOKED!!! Climb at your own risk. As already mentioned they are a direct competitor to the Alien and C3s that make up the current micro cam market. print publications. We like the fact that Metolius has taken into account our color-coded mind frame when trad climbing and given us a tool to quickly check whether a placement is bomber or not. Metolius have managed to narrow the head width by making their cam lobes thinner, which places them in between the Alien and the C3s more or less. With regard to all backcountry travel and climbing, you must make your own assessments and decisions, and you assume all risks in applying them. It seemed a very weak point and one that wasn't going to last very long on the rough Chamonix granite and unfortunately it proved so. There hasn't been one "name dropping" on this thread. However, the thing that really struck me as a bad idea when I first looked at the Master Cams was the Kevlar cord, which attaches the cam lobes to the trigger bar. Aliens may be hard to find now but folk will be interested to know if Master Cams are a good replacement as theirs get lost or damaged or whether to pay the premium for second-hand items on ebay. Home | Climbing Areas | Free 1.) Same goes for the jump from Orange to Red. Not sure where all this hate is coming from. Messages 1 - 18 of total 18 in this topic, Yosemite Valley, California USA, Apr 30, 2019, Yosemite Valley, California USA, Apr 18, 2019, Yosemite Valley, California USA, Apr 17, 2019, Yosemite Valley, California USA, Mar 31, 2019, The Kohala Ditch Trail: 36ish hrs on foot to and from the headwaters. I had a #5 placed 3 or 4 times and the cam lobes started rubbing against each other. It's a workhorse, to be sure. Those skinny wires running over the lobes seem like they'd wear out pretty fast. Rock Climbing Tahoe | -Three generations of #1 Metolius Cams. Our Editors independently research, test, and rate the best products. The smaller units are maybe what interests people the most. Let us know! I have the size zero purple master cam and like it a lot. there is no reason to get anything bigger. Several locals claim to have pulled bomber C3 placements at Indian Creek. Thanks Sam. This was always a feature that I loved about the original metolius, but with the quads, the upwards pull has the potential to allow for the cam to walk. The biggest qualm we have with the Powercams is that the lobes on these cams are pretty close together. Access to a year's subscription to Rockfax Digital. I've used them when climbing with friends a couple of times and been annoyed because they just won't go in as many places as my aliens do. The fraying wires were a worry at the start but it is good to see that this has been cleared up now and am happy to give these cams a big thumbs up. I think Mastercams aren't terrible, but I can't see ever preferring them to aliens. "It's hard to pick one specific type of climbing that I prefer over the others but I think my heart still lies with big mixed alpine routes that potentially involve a couple of nights bivying. By I thought it unusual that you did not compare these with either Wild Country Zeros or Aliens. The light and compact design makes them ideal for back country adventures, or any application where traveling light is key. But what caught my attention, placing all three generations side by side, is the evolution of cam design. I'll concede that I know there are placements that C3s excell because they are narrower, but the vast majority of my placements on smaller sizes don't require a super narrow head. There's a reason many love the Green Alien. Jon, thank you for your review. To me, out on the rock is where they shine and 20 feet out when all you can find is that shallow pocket or flared slot, you will be super stoked to have them. Just real, honest, side-by-side testing and comparison. Placing them with gloves was no problem either as they have a thumb loop much the same as you see on the BD C4s. How many days have you climbed on your totems? I HATE the spacing between BLUE and Yellow. The range of clothing and equipment from Troll expands for spring '21 with a new climbing trouser, some T-Shirts and some new chalk bags and buckets. 3 cam units (TCUs/C3s) don't do very well on soft sandstone. I don't find it to be more a problem than any other small cam. The bigger sizes are too flaccid so I'd say blue-orange is my master cam rack. From Yosemite to the desert Southwest, to the Northeast and Southeast, it seems like everyone is out craggin' in Rocktober. please don't respond, I don't care what you have to say.". The top two are older and the newest generations of Powercams and the bottom is the newest generation of Mastercam. No ads. The cams feature a u-stum design that allows for ease of handling while simultaneously providing a high clip-in point for clean aid climbing. You might ask yourself what the point is in the Kevlar cord at all when metal wire has been the norm over all these years. I read that Totem tweaked the range to make the grey obsolete, but when I add up the numbers, it still looks like Fixe wins. you appreciate the content we offer then you can help us by becoming an official UKC Supporter. No sponsored content. To me, mastercams are way more flexible - thus way more secure. I don't have all the generations of the Metolius cams, but here are the three I do have: Yep, you can call me a nerd for geekin out on cams, but hey, I use A few thoughts. I don't hate 'em, I just think they need some serious refinement. I was a bit skeptical as normally I'm a big fan of C3s on granite and basalt, however I had a green C3 fail on me last week in a body weight situation while at IC. After university he moved to Chamonix, where he works as a professional mountain photographer: www.alpineexposures.com. I just want to be using the safest gear. All rights reserved. I actually like the grey and purple master cams better then the equivalent black and blue aliens. UKClimbing Limited. Myself repeating Highlander with a set of Mastercams, VII 7 Ben O'connor Croft. The BD C4s took the cam market by storm and there are die hard fans all over the world, including myself, but recently I've been really appreciating the extra holding power of the Metolius cams. 1. I love the blue fcu's for index cracks (clean and parallel) and I don't hate the master cam but the green alien rocks. Not massively convinced that this would do the job I took them out again for a good alpine beating and surprisingly enough they are still completely intact after all this time. I'm re-posting my question in a new thread since the folks in the know are probably (and rightfully) not reading the thread I posted it in originally. You will usually need to sling them due to the relatively rigid stems. 2021 marks the 10th birthday of 8BPLUS. one more thing I didn't post - if you're complaining about the trigger wires, make sure you didn't get the older ones - they've long been updated and seem to hold up just fine. Big Wall Rock Climbing Yosemite | We found Powercams to be admirable performers as far as durability goes, and the u-stem is flexible enough for horizontal placements. The added range and narrower head of the alien let you wiggle it into a good placement and the flexy stem and long sling lets you clip it and go. Beta | Forum | Trip Reports | At least a fall or two a day? While we didn't find ourselves actively using the range-finder on the Powercams, so much of gear placing relies on color coding and being able to quickly identify pieces by their color.
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